Yes, forgot zimi. Love zimi. Seems like a great guy. But I don't think he really factors into my calculus for next year. I'd love him to prove me wrong.
The War Room (5/24/2023)
- Thread starter Matt Schwade
- Start date
I agree and trust we use the last 2 ships to finish off a very strong off season . CBB has changed as all of BB has. The Final Four last year had Miami of Fla…Fla Atlantic and SDS which all played small ball and often 4 guards . NOVA win 2 National Championships with only one true Big in the line up. Now to do that your guards and Wings need to be able to play. I have No doubt the staff has accomplished that with Marvel…Cheeks and Bennett. Get our 3 injured boys back and healthy and the options on both sides of the ball are endless. Holmes IS a coming back and will be hard to deal with after his feedback And another summer to get stronger . Jack is a big physical Kid who gives us a banger inside. The upside becomes the final 2 ships and The frosh. If 2 of those guys contribute we van be very very good. The 10 practices to prepare for Europe is outstanding and gives the staff a chance to get the kids on the same page and look at different approaches and lineups. Think of practice Vs last year with all the injuries . Plus walk ons are also at a higher level. The competition will be terrific. The OBI team was not very big…OBI 6 9…Landers maybe 6 5 and Mikesell 6 7…. But tough guards…Jalen…Rodney..Ibi and Cohill. We have Vets…older transfers and frosh coming in GREAT MIX. So I will be the First .I GUARANTEE we will the Conference and go to sweet sixteen.
Unfortunately there aren't many Toumanis at the A10 level. But I'd take my chances with thirteen of him versus almost any other roster combination we could think of (we'd miss a lot of layups and commit a lot of fouls though).
And the massive distraction of what happened with Coach Grant's family.
Were we ever in on them? I have never seen us mentioned other than when Matt said those could be guys we go after. Nobody else has mentioned us with them and Matt hasn't mentioned them again (may have missed if he has).
I’m all for going small and having Brea, Simon, Allen split big minutes at the three. Brea figures to get a large chunk of the minutes. Similar to what Matt was saying earlier, whoever got in Amzil’s ear? Minutes are there. IMO wasn’t the best decision.
Recruiting dinner at Amber Rose is my suggestion!
European players are great to have if you want to run "position-less basketball". Guards are taught to post up, bigs are taught to shoot and pass, court vision is preached to all. Every position learns every skill. Youth teams here stateside tend to pigeonhole players based on their size. Generalizations, of course.
Right now, a lot of the NBA's biggest stars are European. Jokic, Antetikuompo, and Doncic might be the 3 best players in the world, all European.
So when these European players interview with Matt and claim to play all 5 positions, they probably mean it, they don't know it any other way.
Right now, a lot of the NBA's biggest stars are European. Jokic, Antetikuompo, and Doncic might be the 3 best players in the world, all European.
So when these European players interview with Matt and claim to play all 5 positions, they probably mean it, they don't know it any other way.
I know Flyers are out on Brandon Gardner, that I was told recently.
Makes sense to me, if we land Butka... I'm done with 2023 recruits, I'm all about transfers for the last 1 (or 2 Deuce) schollie.
I'm all for positionless basketball. And to be honest, we had a lot of those pieces last year. We had a 6'8" point guard on the roster and a player that could guard pretty much any position in Toumani. We had Amzil who could play or guard the 3-5 position if we really wanted him to. I feel like at this moment in time, we're far weaker in the 'positionless' argument than we were last year.
I don't think Isaac Jack is a positionless player. And really neither is holmes to be honest. He's a 5. Can he play some 4 next year? He'll need to get a reliable shot and show a little more capacity to put the ball on the floor. Erceg seems pretty firmly a 4. A lot of our guards can play the 1 or 2. Very few if any can play the 1-3.
My point is this roster is not as versatile as last year's in terms of personnel. Very few people on this roster can play the 4 or flex to be a 3. I think last year's personnel was great overall. We created mismatches most games with our size. It was just that we were not deep enough at the guard spots and didn't recruit another guard. Had we had one or two more ball handlers we probably would have danced.
Are some of you guys really ready to stand pat with the roster as it stands now? Seems kinda nuts to me.
I don't think Isaac Jack is a positionless player. And really neither is holmes to be honest. He's a 5. Can he play some 4 next year? He'll need to get a reliable shot and show a little more capacity to put the ball on the floor. Erceg seems pretty firmly a 4. A lot of our guards can play the 1 or 2. Very few if any can play the 1-3.
My point is this roster is not as versatile as last year's in terms of personnel. Very few people on this roster can play the 4 or flex to be a 3. I think last year's personnel was great overall. We created mismatches most games with our size. It was just that we were not deep enough at the guard spots and didn't recruit another guard. Had we had one or two more ball handlers we probably would have danced.
Are some of you guys really ready to stand pat with the roster as it stands now? Seems kinda nuts to me.
If DaRon comes back, this is 100% a better roster than last year, at least if you factor in the injuries. Everyone healthy, I think it's certainly debatable last year vs this year, but that isn't how it played out.
Returning guys, you would think would be better with another year of experience.
Junior DaRon is going to be a freaking monster if he is playing for our Flyers. He was excellent last year and should have been the A10 POY. I think he may well move to the 4 with Jack starting at the 5. DaRon adding a little more shooting, more face-up attacking while still playing stellar defense sounds good to me. He is soooo good at racing down the floor on the break or semi-break. If he isn't having to bang as much down low, his legs will be fresher. Easily the preseason pick for A10 POY next year if he comes back.
Mali wasn't right all year. his best game was home vs SLU and he didn't look healthy at all in pretty much any other game. He was really, really good at the end of the 21-22 season, if he gets right he can be very very good on defense and as a distributor. Shooting remains a question, he won't have a full offseason of training, but he wasn't very good last year despite trying to gut it out all season. Have to think his 23-24 season is better than his 22-23 season.
Elvis similarly wasn't every close to right after Atlantis. Assuming he's healthy, he ought to be much improved from last year. He's limited and undersized, but when he heats up, he can be quite a weapon, and we ought to have the depth to allow him to play when he's hot, sit when he's not.
Brea was hurt all year and clearly was on fumes at the end of the season. With Mike out/injured, Elvis injured, RJ's head who-knows-where, we had no other option, and bravo to him for trying to gut it out in Brooklyn. He was fantastic in the Wyoming game, quite good in our big W at VCU, and he showed a lot of flashes the prior year. I could easily see him playing the 3 assuming he is healthy.
I'm not expecting a lot from Zimi next year, and I am a huge fan of him as a person, but he wasn't very good at all in any facet last year. If he's even a little better, that would be helpful. He had 45 points and 45 rebounds all year. We need more than that.
New guys:
Is Erceg better than Amzil? I doubt as a freshman he will be better than Amzil as a junior. But Stapha was a little slow, a little ground-bound, and a little inconsistent as a shooter. He tweaked an ankle early in the A10 season and seemed kind of limited after that with a few flashes (ie 1st half against VCU in Brooklyn). I dunno how good Erceg is but he looks to be a good shooter and has good size.
Is Isaac Jack better than Toumani? Heck no. Toumani had a fabulous season and as noted elsewhere, we won't replace him with one guy. Jack seems to be better than just a BWS, though, and he seems to have good upside. Jack at the 5 might allow us to unlock DaRon at the 4, and that could get DaRon all kinds of favorable matchups. If Jack can be "not unplayable" then he will be an upgrade from Rich anyway.
I'm very very high on Cheeks. He's smaller than RJ for sure, but a way better ball handler, has a lot of experience, and had better shooting splits from 2/3/FT than RJ on much higher usage. Made 49 threes last year, RJ shot 66 total (and that felt like too many; he shot a paltry 24.2% on 16 of 66 from deep. Woof). I see Cheeks playing a lot of minutes for us next year.
Javon Bennett is definitely going to be better than Kaleb Washington was for us last year. I was high on Kaleb, but he was a distraction, and totally pissed away a golden opportunity and let the team down about as much as a guy can, getting himself suspended when we were shorthanded and could have used him. Bennett will allow us to play faster, provides depth and a shooting threat (even if his percentages weren't great). There's no doubt in my mind he will give us more than Kaleb did last year.
Marvel Allen I think is likely an upgrade over Mike as a freshman next year. Mike has a lot of skill and is obviously much taller and longer. I'm not sure his priorities lined up with the team's priorities and I'll leave it at that. I'm very excited to see what Allen can bring. Looks like he can play the 2 or the 3. He looks solid.
EDIT (thanks, @murphyey - I forgot Simon!): Jaiun Simon looks to have that dog in him. Little bit of a tweener, maybe, but he looks like he can be a versatile piece who can do a little of whatever the coaches ask.
Literally warm body A and warm body B would be better than Tyrone Baker and Open Roster Spot were for us last year. If Butka commits (and you'd have to think we're on commit watch if he is visiting this weekend!), he has to be better than redshirt-and-quit-the-team.
So, assuming Holmes is back, and assuming Mali, Koby, and Kobe get healthy, I think this roster is a very clear upgrade from how last year's ended up. Guard depth is miles better. Wing depth should be better too. Our bigs I think may actually be better overall, even factoring in Toumani's exit, if you account for expected improvement in DaRon's game. Heck, our walk-ons will be a lot better too! Much was made of our pace of play; I think Grant would be happy to play faster, press some more, switch guys in and out more. But last year we had no depth at all, the guys actually playing were banged up, and in my opinion, running more would have been foolish. We just didn't have the legs to play that way. Anyway, with so many new faces and several unknowns, of course there's a lot of question marks all over the place, but as Matt said, I think we addressed our weaknesses very nicely. I don't want to see any open roster spots this year so we have more work to do. I'm not sure I'm Sweet Sixteen confident, but if DaRon is back, we are looking good, IMHO.
Returning guys, you would think would be better with another year of experience.
Junior DaRon is going to be a freaking monster if he is playing for our Flyers. He was excellent last year and should have been the A10 POY. I think he may well move to the 4 with Jack starting at the 5. DaRon adding a little more shooting, more face-up attacking while still playing stellar defense sounds good to me. He is soooo good at racing down the floor on the break or semi-break. If he isn't having to bang as much down low, his legs will be fresher. Easily the preseason pick for A10 POY next year if he comes back.
Mali wasn't right all year. his best game was home vs SLU and he didn't look healthy at all in pretty much any other game. He was really, really good at the end of the 21-22 season, if he gets right he can be very very good on defense and as a distributor. Shooting remains a question, he won't have a full offseason of training, but he wasn't very good last year despite trying to gut it out all season. Have to think his 23-24 season is better than his 22-23 season.
Elvis similarly wasn't every close to right after Atlantis. Assuming he's healthy, he ought to be much improved from last year. He's limited and undersized, but when he heats up, he can be quite a weapon, and we ought to have the depth to allow him to play when he's hot, sit when he's not.
Brea was hurt all year and clearly was on fumes at the end of the season. With Mike out/injured, Elvis injured, RJ's head who-knows-where, we had no other option, and bravo to him for trying to gut it out in Brooklyn. He was fantastic in the Wyoming game, quite good in our big W at VCU, and he showed a lot of flashes the prior year. I could easily see him playing the 3 assuming he is healthy.
I'm not expecting a lot from Zimi next year, and I am a huge fan of him as a person, but he wasn't very good at all in any facet last year. If he's even a little better, that would be helpful. He had 45 points and 45 rebounds all year. We need more than that.
New guys:
Is Erceg better than Amzil? I doubt as a freshman he will be better than Amzil as a junior. But Stapha was a little slow, a little ground-bound, and a little inconsistent as a shooter. He tweaked an ankle early in the A10 season and seemed kind of limited after that with a few flashes (ie 1st half against VCU in Brooklyn). I dunno how good Erceg is but he looks to be a good shooter and has good size.
Is Isaac Jack better than Toumani? Heck no. Toumani had a fabulous season and as noted elsewhere, we won't replace him with one guy. Jack seems to be better than just a BWS, though, and he seems to have good upside. Jack at the 5 might allow us to unlock DaRon at the 4, and that could get DaRon all kinds of favorable matchups. If Jack can be "not unplayable" then he will be an upgrade from Rich anyway.
I'm very very high on Cheeks. He's smaller than RJ for sure, but a way better ball handler, has a lot of experience, and had better shooting splits from 2/3/FT than RJ on much higher usage. Made 49 threes last year, RJ shot 66 total (and that felt like too many; he shot a paltry 24.2% on 16 of 66 from deep. Woof). I see Cheeks playing a lot of minutes for us next year.
Javon Bennett is definitely going to be better than Kaleb Washington was for us last year. I was high on Kaleb, but he was a distraction, and totally pissed away a golden opportunity and let the team down about as much as a guy can, getting himself suspended when we were shorthanded and could have used him. Bennett will allow us to play faster, provides depth and a shooting threat (even if his percentages weren't great). There's no doubt in my mind he will give us more than Kaleb did last year.
Marvel Allen I think is likely an upgrade over Mike as a freshman next year. Mike has a lot of skill and is obviously much taller and longer. I'm not sure his priorities lined up with the team's priorities and I'll leave it at that. I'm very excited to see what Allen can bring. Looks like he can play the 2 or the 3. He looks solid.
EDIT (thanks, @murphyey - I forgot Simon!): Jaiun Simon looks to have that dog in him. Little bit of a tweener, maybe, but he looks like he can be a versatile piece who can do a little of whatever the coaches ask.
Literally warm body A and warm body B would be better than Tyrone Baker and Open Roster Spot were for us last year. If Butka commits (and you'd have to think we're on commit watch if he is visiting this weekend!), he has to be better than redshirt-and-quit-the-team.
So, assuming Holmes is back, and assuming Mali, Koby, and Kobe get healthy, I think this roster is a very clear upgrade from how last year's ended up. Guard depth is miles better. Wing depth should be better too. Our bigs I think may actually be better overall, even factoring in Toumani's exit, if you account for expected improvement in DaRon's game. Heck, our walk-ons will be a lot better too! Much was made of our pace of play; I think Grant would be happy to play faster, press some more, switch guys in and out more. But last year we had no depth at all, the guys actually playing were banged up, and in my opinion, running more would have been foolish. We just didn't have the legs to play that way. Anyway, with so many new faces and several unknowns, of course there's a lot of question marks all over the place, but as Matt said, I think we addressed our weaknesses very nicely. I don't want to see any open roster spots this year so we have more work to do. I'm not sure I'm Sweet Sixteen confident, but if DaRon is back, we are looking good, IMHO.
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Don’t sleep on Simon!
1 thing that will never be lost to me after last year and it;s an age old saying, your worst enemy/opponent is injury, especially in college hoops with such a short roster and 25% of your team are newcomers.
So trying to look ahead yes a roster including Daron for a 3rd year has me hopeful and with a summer (spring training of sorts) is exciting as well but how many years have we ever had 2 guys at the NBA combine?
So hard to get my head around that looking backward and thinking what could've been again last year absent injuries.
So trying to look ahead yes a roster including Daron for a 3rd year has me hopeful and with a summer (spring training of sorts) is exciting as well but how many years have we ever had 2 guys at the NBA combine?
So hard to get my head around that looking backward and thinking what could've been again last year absent injuries.
I see this as bad news and good news. Bad news in that the highest rated recruit the Flyers has had never made it to the NCAA and is getting disappointing evaluations in the NBA draft process. The good news if DaRon does come back, is that he should be a man on a mission both personally and as a team leader to do everything he can to make sure next year doesn't end like the last.
@Matt Schwade i know most of these kids aren’t on campus yet, but have you heard whispers from the coaching staff about which player they’re very excited about. Anyone stand out? Unlike past recruiting classes, this class seems to be flying under the radar.
This is along the lines of why I think of balance when I think of this years roster, at least assuming last years injuries will be repaired/healed. We had the best frontcourt in the conference by a mile, but probably the worst guard play in the conference due to injury. No one feared 3 hurt guards, a freshman they knew wasnt going to the basket and a passive SF. Size was a strength and the big lineup did work well, the 1-3-1 zone had some great moments. But we had no ability to do anything else. I think that will be different this year.
We had 8 scholarship contributors, 3 of which were hurt. Zimi at least tried, but he overlapped with Camara and Amzil in the only place we had any depth. We got literal zero out of the other 4 roster spots. Its early and theoretical and I wear red and blue glasses almost all the time, but where we stand now I see Zimi as the 11th guy with 10 guys able to contribute ahead of him. 2 chances left to make additional positive impact.
Looking at the roster, roughly speaking (including the walkons) we have 10 guards right now. We have only three guys who can play the 4-5 positions. I guess four if you count zimi as being able to play the 4. But um...i don't really count him.
Who are our big guys even going to go up in practice against? Sure, Jack can try to cover Daron in practice and challenge him with his size and physicality. But we have no other 6'10 bodies or even 6'8 bodies.
If we get in foul trouble or have an injury it will not be pretty. It will be the reverse of last year where we all say 'awwwww shucks, bad luck. Can't win if we have injured bigs.'
And yes, it makes sense if you want to play small ball and increase the pace as a shift in program style. But if you want to increase the pace of play, you don't sign Jack and Erceg. Even though i like both those signings, it's not like they run like deer.
And looking at Butka, his stats in the FIBA tourney are not very impressive. In 7 games averaging 18 min a game his stats were:
4-14 from three.
4-15 from the freethrow line. (?!)
4 assists total. (four assists in 126 minutes of playing time)
8 ppg.
3 rpg.
He is listed as a 6-8" shooting guard. So i like his size. But the limited video i've seen of him just shows him camping out at the three point line waiting for a kickout. I don't see a lot of offensive skill or athleticism to him. Nor does he look like a banger or defensive presence down low.
We still need a dynamic athlete in the 6'8 range (simon might become that guy and grow into it, but he's a frosh). And at least one other big.
Who are our big guys even going to go up in practice against? Sure, Jack can try to cover Daron in practice and challenge him with his size and physicality. But we have no other 6'10 bodies or even 6'8 bodies.
If we get in foul trouble or have an injury it will not be pretty. It will be the reverse of last year where we all say 'awwwww shucks, bad luck. Can't win if we have injured bigs.'
And yes, it makes sense if you want to play small ball and increase the pace as a shift in program style. But if you want to increase the pace of play, you don't sign Jack and Erceg. Even though i like both those signings, it's not like they run like deer.
And looking at Butka, his stats in the FIBA tourney are not very impressive. In 7 games averaging 18 min a game his stats were:
4-14 from three.
4-15 from the freethrow line. (?!)
4 assists total. (four assists in 126 minutes of playing time)
8 ppg.
3 rpg.
He is listed as a 6-8" shooting guard. So i like his size. But the limited video i've seen of him just shows him camping out at the three point line waiting for a kickout. I don't see a lot of offensive skill or athleticism to him. Nor does he look like a banger or defensive presence down low.
We still need a dynamic athlete in the 6'8 range (simon might become that guy and grow into it, but he's a frosh). And at least one other big.
Yeah, I have 100% given up on this one.
Last year with injuries was the perfect time to throw it out there. And it did not happen. Have to assume it was lack of ball handling, creativity, and offensive rhythm on that side of the ball. And too many mistakes on defensive side, which should have been a strength of positionless approach.
With all of the 'little guards' brought in, clearly the coaching staff is going with more traditional roles...
No clue if good or bad. Just not the present/future of 'positionless'.
I think we’re missing a forward in the 6’6” to 6’7” range - the dynamic athlete you are referring to above.
I predicted that for the last two seasons so I am done jinxing him.
What do we consider "big"? I think he can contribute 6-8 ppg and 4-5 rebounds if he is a regular rotation member.
I think the athleticism is there and arguably the skill too for Zimi. What's really lacking is a killer mentality and confidence. He's SUCH a great teammate and guy that it almost takes away from his competitiveness.
I desperately want him to be starter quality and I deeply believe he has it in him. Who knows if we'll see it.
I desperately want him to be starter quality and I deeply believe he has it in him. Who knows if we'll see it.
So 2 years ago, I called Zimi out on his conditioning or better stated lack of seeing the kind of advance others were, last season, better condition but absolutely no shot in practice or games. His biggest deficiency is he's just not a tough kid and I've never seen a kid lacking in that category gain it...you either have it or you don't.
Great example, in Celtics v Heat series...if any of you saw Jimmy Butler and Grant Williams get it face to face that's what I'm talking about or even Tatum having a big last game after everyone was calling out his timid showing vs Heat. It should be a wild 1 in Boston tonight...
Great example, in Celtics v Heat series...if any of you saw Jimmy Butler and Grant Williams get it face to face that's what I'm talking about or even Tatum having a big last game after everyone was calling out his timid showing vs Heat. It should be a wild 1 in Boston tonight...
I think Zimi is great for this team. You can’t have 13 starters on a roster. Role players are needed.
Your take is spot on , I’m addressing the notion he might contribute statistically, I’m an optimist, it is his last year of eligibility and sometimes that sense of urgency kicks in…
"Another slow basket for Holmes.
It's hard to win when playing basketball in the 80s and 90s."
And his dad liked it. So not sure what I think about this...
